California Dreamin' with Maggie Kayne and Bill Griffin

The Canvas: In many ways – and this is true even to this day – the gallery has been built around this focus on contemporary artists from Southern California. But the program has evolved significantly as you’ve taken on the representation of more artists. To start off, how do you both view the gallery’s current programming? Is there a thread that weaves together the artists you represent? In other words, what makes a Kayne Griffin Corcoran artist? 

Bill Griffin: It really starts with the foundation of this Southern Californian aesthetic and the history we have working with artists like James Turrell, Mary Corse, and David Lynch. When you couple that with Jim’s history of working with classic California artists like Ruscha and Ken Price; and Maggie growing up in the city of LA and how that helped shape the way she thinks about art, I think you begin to get a sense of how we view our program. Look, from the very beginning, we wanted to be defined as a quintessential Southern California gallery. That’s who we are. And that philosophy ex-tends to the gallery’s physical space as well. Back in the 1940s, the building was a carport and when we took it over, James [Turrell] designed our space and courtyard and completely transformed the experience. 

The Canvas: I definitely hear what you’re saying about the essence of the program. But then how does that extend to working with an artist like Hank Willis Thomas? 

Maggie Kayne: I think the thread is sometimes hard to define. But every artist we work with has a voice and process that will last beyond just the here and now. There’s a timelessness to the ideas. When you work with an artist like Turrell, who’s really the cornerstone of the gallery, I think it’s important that any other artists we bring in have a certain level of substance underlying their practices. We’re never going to do some gimmicky show that looks great just for a moment. We really try to have a much slower, steadier approach with the artists we work with. 

The Canvas: In addition to taking on the representation of more artists, the gallery has also been bringing in new staff and participating in a dizzying array of fairs in recent years. From a strategic standpoint, in today’s market, do you believe that a gallery needs to be constantly growing in order to succeed? And you can interpret “grow” however you like – whether in terms of artists on roster, staff size, gallery spaces, etc. 

The Canvas: Speaking of world domination… Have you guys identified at all with the sentiment that some medium-sized galleries have expressed in terms of the struggles they’ve faced as the mega-galleries continue to grow larger? 

Maggie Kayne: No, they haven’t really affected us. I mean, maybe there’s been an artist I’ve been excited about who ended up being swallowed by one of the mega-galleries. But for the most part, no. They haven’t affected our day-to-day business or changed the way in which we run the gallery. 

Bill Griffin: If anything, I think they help define us, because what we have to offer is very different from what they offer. I think that’s why an artist like Mary is with us; and why our relationship with James has endured for nearly two decades. The bottom line is that everything starts and ends with belief. Belief transcends all the other noise. And there’s a big difference between the kind of belief we have for our artists, and the kind of belief that a gallery with 140 artists on its roster has for theirs. 

A gallery’s relationship with its artists isn’t just about dollars and cents, it’s about how you talk about the work, it’s about how often you visit the studio, and it’s about what sacrifices you make to fulfill the visions of your artists. Maggie and I are doing all those things on a day-to-day basis as owners of the business with our names on the door. That makes a hell of a lot of difference to artists in practical, tangible terms. And I think time is our friend on this. Yes, there’s a consolidation that’s occurred. But you know what? There’s going to be an inverse effect and the pendulum will swing the other way. I think we’ll see a lot of artists begin to think, “You know what, I’m not the top dog here. I’m not the cash cow. I’m just sitting here biding my time and getting marginalized. There are other galleries out there that believe in, fight for, and champion the visions of their artists. I’m going to go talk to them.” It’s inevitable. 

Bill Griffin: In a way, we approach fairs backwards. We start with the artists and their studios and look at what their calendars are like in terms of institutional commitments, gallery commitments, and, of course, respecting the creative process; and then we examine what they can reasonably be expected to provide for fairs. First and foremost, it has to be beneficial to them in terms of the right mix of work we bring to a fair. This year, we looked at the rate of growth that the studios have been going through – both the emerging and the mid-career – and felt that we could probably take a breather and make sure we were focusing our energy and gearing up for next year, rather than feeling like were obligated to keep running on the hamster wheel and scurrying around the globe.

Maggie Kayne: Having substantial long-term relationships with a small number of truly engaged, passionate collectors is really at the heart of our business model. The art fairs are more transactional and not where we want the heart of our business to be, so yes, we’ll be doing fewer fairs this year. We’re doing Frieze LA, and then the ADAA Art Show, and then the Armory Show the week after. That’ll be it until Art Basel Miami Beach in December. We will reevaluate for 2021.

The Canvas: Speaking of the gallery’s business model, how important are secondary market sales to the gallery? I know Jim’s background is mostly in the secondary market… 

Maggie Kayne: Secondary market sales were an important piece of our gallery’s business, especially in the beginning. But I’d say that we relied on them more in the first couple of years than we do now that we have a more established stable of artists. Now, there’s more focus on building a stable primary market for artists like Mary Corse, Mika Tajima, or Hank Willis Thomas then there is on secondary market sales. We’ll continue to look at secondary market opportunities, and try to capitalize on them when appropriate, but as we’ve developed our roster, the secondary market sales are pretty surgical and need to fit into a more wholistic strategy. 

The Canvas: I’ve asked everyone participating in this issue the next question, but Maggie, I’m particularly interested in your answer since you grew up in LA. Walk me through how far the gallery scene has come in the past ten years or so. What’s day-to-day foot traffic like for galleries and specifically at Kayne Griffin Corcoran? Where do you see it going? And what’s still missing? 

Maggie Kayne: I think there’s always been amazing things happening here, but people weren’t necessarily paying attention. I mean, LA had the Ferus Gallery in the 60s. Traditionally though, the city was viewed as more of a production center for art while New York was the market capital. That attitude has definitely shifted over the years. There’s a lot more coordination between the institutions and the galleries and the timing of events. Frieze LA certainly helped catalyze that even more. 

But look, LA is never going to be New York. We’re never going to experience the kind of foot traffic that Chelsea gets. You can’t have a day like you could in Chelsea where you go and knock out 20 to 40 galleries within a couple of hours. Our galleries are always going to be ‘destinations,’ to a degree. So, foot traffic really varies depending on each show. Also, in the past, collectors would only want to buy from New York. That attitude completely doesn’t exist anymore. We have a lot of East Coast, international, and especially Pacific Rim clients who come to us first, even if they also do business elsewhere. It’s a global art market at this point and Los Angeles is the image capital of the world.  It’s definitely on the map and will continue to grow. I don’t see an end to that.